Just goes to show, whatever your political leanings, that no matter how much money you throw at it the NHS will gladly gobble it up into a bottomless pit for very little in return. That also goes for any other local or central government body. Remember folks whenever the government spouts off that they are spending this or that on whatever, it's YOUR money they are spending and spending and spending and spending and spending. Just like and ex wife and maintenance, not matter how much you pay or can afford to pay they always want more.

Mr Birdsall also said that since the survey improvements had been carried out, including recruiting more volunteers to help patients at meal times and an agreement to answer call bells more promptly.

Perhaps thats why my
wife who had just had a Tracheotomy tube taken out was about to be given liver and onions for her dinner,
Despite there being a
NIL BY MOUTH notice on
her wall .
When i questioned it,
i was told,
in broken english,
there had been a mix up in the menu.
Our Hospitals,like the Country,has gone
to the dogs.

Ok a Tax payer how would you run the NHS?

just what i wanted to no when im going in for a op tomorrow

I am not surprised that GWH has done poorly in these tables; it was too small for the population that it served when it was built and that population has and is still growing.
As for the standard of spoken English (BWB) used my many staff I am afraid that it is a sad reflection of the recruiting policy of the local trust.
My view on who should run our hospitals. Senior doctors and nurses not managers / accountants or Politian’s would be a good start.

The NHS was set-up as a Labour party vanity project and has since become a politically important issue and also an economically essential one.

The NHS today is the world's third largest employer. It directly employs almost 1.5m people.

The government takes our money to fund it all and to employ 1.5m people - it makes employment figures look good and any government can increase tax as much as necessary to pay the wage bill, all because people in this country have been brainwashed into thinking the NHS 'must' be a good thing.

As with many such ideas, the theory is wonderful whilst the reality is the opposite.

It says much about the success of government propaganda that many people in the UK believe the NHS to be the best health service in the world. The reality is that it's not much better than many third world countries and is almost bottom of the list of health care provision in Western/European countries.

Labour have tripled spending on the NHS since 1997 and, by all the independent criteria, the service has got progressively worse.

The NHS directly kills around 10,000 people year either via incomptence or MRSA type diseases.

MRSA does not exist in private hospitals.

The NHS was founded on flawed principles and has been recently demonstrated to be an unworkable format. We should be following the lead of most European health care, where different - and far more successful - funding models are employed.

Lastly, what really amazes me is that when you finally get people to admit the realities about the NHS they always have one last response:

"Ah, but it's better than America. People die in the streets there because they can't afford health care"

Of course, it's utter nonsense. Free health care (and I mean, totally free - the NHS is far from free, we all pay a fortune for it) is widely available in the US and all forms of health care there are superior to the NHS.

Until people stop burying their head in the sand and pretending that the NHS is 'fine' then it'll never get better.

And throwing yet more money at it is NOT the answer, even though it appears to be the only one that the likes of Gordon Brown can come up with.

But, then, of course, it's not his money, is it?

If my memory serves me well didn't we have a similar scenario last year where the hospital spokesman cited results being unfair as it was based on a survey in 2006. So, have there been any improvements between 2006 and 2007 surveys?

A sad reflection on allowing 'managers' to manage an essential service. They have no concept of patient care or requirements. Without wishing to be political, my party does advocate hospitals being run by medical staff, as it was, and when it was at it's most efficient. No one milking the pot, as is now the case. Every time, something needs to be decided another committee is formed, another gravy train consultant is called in and more valuable resources wasted. As stated above it happens across the board in the public sector. Take for example 'flooding', SBC have scarce resources and yet they spend tens of thousands getting 'experts' to tell us what we already know. Most of the culverts in the Borough are two small, how long does it take to calculate the volume of water and how big a culvert needs to be. My work if you can get it.

How would i run it Doug? Cheap shot across my bows eh? I'm not a health professional and have no experience of the health service, however, one need not be one or have any to see that in spite of all the money pumped in in the last 11 years things are far from hunky dorey are they? So what to do? Pump even more in?

So to try to answer your cheap shot question (like you have all the answers yourself on the back of a fag packet), not by throwing money at it to start with. Nor tinkering around the edges every few years to show how busy and proactive the government seem to be. I'd start by asking those professionals who work within the NHS how they could improve things within current budgets. Refuse to treat foreign nationals and tourists who have no health insurance (don't let them into this country in the first place). Cut out waste, make sure the drug companies offered better deals and do more business with generic manufacturers. Cut out non essential surgery like sex changes and breast enlargements, you want it that bad you pay for it. Increase nurses pay funded by the savings, introduce matrons back onto the wards and make the cleaning companies more accountable and liable for their contracts.

Your political leanings are well known Doug perhaps you'd like to ask the team you support the same question? I heard yesterday on the radio of the case where a woman who had been a midwife and had taken time off to have children and wanted to come back into the profession which is understaffed according to what one reads. She was told she would have to retrain, fair enough i say but was then told she'd have to PAY for retraining herself!! Yet their is a massive amount of money (back to money again) being spent on agency nurses and overseas nurses being allowed in willy nilly. I'm sure the those who work within the service would like to make comments about how they could improve things.

On the subject of money i wonder how many people out there really understand what the REAL cost of the GW hospital will be to the tax payer? Lest we not forget that after the GWH was opened another wing was built because the original building was not big enough to service the area and population it was supposed to, Doh, Doh. Of course that could not be covered up with a band aid could it and those who made the original decisions are who exactly? Over to you Doug.

When my wife gave birth 7 months ago the consultant that was assigned to our case was very hard to understand, as his English was not the best. If the consultants find it hard to communicate what is the likelihood of catering staff (on £5.85 and hour) being any good.

Okay, things ain't perfect, but ...

How come most of those who do the complaining are not actually in-patients, and have been fortunate enough not to need treatment?

What is the alternative to the NHS?

Why is it, and history proves this, the anti-Labour brigade can find little wrong in the NHS when there is a Tory Government? (Who, incidentally, are reknowned for UNDER-FUNDING!)

These columns indicate a political angle on every subject which comes into print, especially if the corespondents can mix a bit of 'anti-imigration' tittle-tattle into the bargain.

There are statements of anger in the above comments, which are a little odd to comprehend ... who actually needs the NHS then? I'll let you into a tiny secret ...SICK PEOPLE ... whether they are British or visitors ... most of the civilised countries would offer some treatment to a Briton becoming ill on their territory, I'm sure!

Donkey wrote:
Okay, things ain't perfect, but ...

How come most of those who do the complaining are not actually in-patients, and have been fortunate enough not to need treatment?

What is the alternative to the NHS?

Why is it, and history proves this, the anti-Labour brigade can find little wrong in the NHS when there is a Tory Government? (Who, incidentally, are reknowned for UNDER-FUNDING!)

These columns indicate a political angle on every subject which comes into print, especially if the corespondents can mix a bit of 'anti-imigration' tittle-tattle into the bargain.

There are statements of anger in the above comments, which are a little odd to comprehend ... who actually needs the NHS then? I'll let you into a tiny secret ...SICK PEOPLE ... whether they are British or visitors ... most of the civilised countries would offer some treatment to a Briton becoming ill on their territory, I'm sure!

Yes they would if you show a certificate of insurance!!!! Otherwise tough do do. Ask the foreign office how many Brits go abroad without medical insurance and end up in big trouble. Here we treat anyone and everyone, very laudable except for those who need an expensive drug and have to go to the high court to get it because there is not enough money to pay for it. Lord knows how much we pay already and i thought charity begins at home.

Incorrect Donkey, anyone who actually understands the way health care systems are funded knows that the NHS in the UK can never work properly, regardless of whether it's a Tory or Labour government who are funding it.

As for 'underfunding', Labour have thrown THREE times as much money at the NHS as the Tories did but have made no improvements at all (in actual terms, it's got worse).

Now, would you be happy to hand over three times your usual shopping bill money to Tescos in return for less provisions that it usually buys you?!?

And you are also quite wrong in your closing comments. It is well known that many countries have 'health tourists' that come to the UK purely to take advantage of our health care system. Most of them have never, and will never, pay a penny towards the system yet can afford expensive flights to and from this country.

I have no problem with genuinely ill people obtaining decent health care. Unfortunately, while the NHS continues to be run as is, NOBODY receives the quality of health care that they could be getting.

I read this article and it makes me so angry. 18 months ago i was seriosly ill when a doctor at gwh made a stupid mistake, I almost died through that mistake and it is safe to say he's ruined my life. It was bad enough that this medical accident happened in the first place but to add insult to injury the staff treated me and my family appallingly. They were rude, arrogant and so badly understaffed that visitor's for other patients were looking after me. Myself and family have complained about the way i was treated and after a number of letters and a meeting they promised they would learn from there mistakes and change. 18 months they haven't changed a thing. I go to a different hospital for my treatment now. GWH is badly run. It should be renamed GBH.
When you go into hospital you want to know that you will be cared for and looked after. Nobody expects 5 star treatment but you should expect respect and to be made better.

Donkey wrote,
most of the civilised countries would offer some treatment to a Briton becoming ill on their territory, I'm sure!

From personal experience,
Within the EU you will have to show your E111 (the new plastic credit card sized one) to receive any medical care and you would be well advised to have travel insurance to cover the extras.
In the USA you will get emergency first aid without having to pay anything but beyond that is down to you or your insurance to pay for.
I am sure some of the more widely travelled readers could give first hand information on the systems in other countries but I have not found anywhere that treatment is as accessible to travellers as here.
The NHS is good at providing emergency care where it can fall down is with long term or routine care.

Frankly I'm surprised the GWH did that well in the survey.
The staff mostly all bring in their own food to eat as the hospital swill is so appalling & to say there is a lack of care for patients is a great understatement. I know this from personal knowledge.
There are many people, me included, who refuse to be treated at the GWH and with good reasons.

I visit the States regularly and on one occasion split the top of my finger open.

The completely free medical centre attended to to the problem quickly, professionally and I found the place to be spotlessly clean, modern and bright.

They advised me to visit my own GP when I returned. When I did, he asked me to show him the medication and gel I'd be given by the US doctors.

After commenting how well and quickly the finger had healed, my doctor then looked at the medication and said, 'Ah, yes, I know this stuff - we're not allowed to use it over here'

That just about summed up the NHS for me.

Well, that and the time I actually used the NHS, had the doctor diagnose a foot infection and put me on anti-biotics for two months.

A visit to a private hospital two months later (afte the foot hadn't healed at all) revealed that, in fact, I'd fractured a bone in my foot.

To this day I'm still not sure how the NHS doctor could have got something of that nature so spectacularly wrong after examining me TWO times!

In answer to madamspud, the reason staff bring in their own food rather than eat the "hospital swill" is that it's a sackable offence for staff to eat hospital food, and nothing to do with the quality of it.

Watch out for the stampede to the "client catering facility" by the hospital staff desperate to be sacked then. I think you'll find that they know the rules regarding the consumption of "client provisions" and value their lives. I would suspect swindon1 was referring to the staff catering facilities.

I work in GWH and i am very proud to do so. I have just spent several hours this afternoon liasing with carillion with regards to the cleaning on my ward. Something i do alongside my nursing demands,often in my own time. I have spoken to Carillion on several occassions reference training the cleaning staff to do a better job,it has worked on our ward. I spend a minimum of two hours once a week doing cleaning audits so that things are kept on top of. I am very proud of what i have achieved on my ward and i address any issues with cleanliness by contacting Carillion supervisors directly.
As for the food,yes,it is a sackable offence to eat the food which is served on the ward,that is why we bring our own food! Also,as we only get one half hour break during a very busy eight hour shift,then the last thing you want to do is be stood in the canteen waiting to be served!
I think people who moan about the hospital should perhaps volunteer and come and see what pressure we are really under on the wards. You might then realise what a service we provide under such terrible demands. Most nursing staff wish they could do more,but we are only human and yes,unfortunately not everybody is satisfied. I believe i am extremely competent in my job and i give it my all,i love my job and i feel a sense of great satisfaction after every shift. Come up and volunteer,you might understand the NHS then.

" I have just spent several hours this afternoon liasing with carillion with regards to the cleaning on my ward. Something i do alongside my nursing demands,often in my own time."
Speaks volumes about Carillon, does it not?
After 5 years running the GWH THEY STILL HAVE TO BE TOLD and obviously at great length, about ward cleanliness!
BTW, aren't they one of the companies being investigated for massive overcharging ,etc on PFI schemes? So much for d-d-d-ditherer McBroon's claims of record investment in the NHS!
How many surveys have now been done into GWH and how many times have we heard the phrase "policies had been put into place to improve categories that had room for improvement" from Birdsall et al.
Time to cut out the managerial dead wood, I believe.

I've just been into GWH today (dental ward)to have some dodgy wisdom teeth out under GA. Can't fault the care, politeness, and professionalism of the staff. (at home now and sore!)

mum of three wrote:
I work in GWH and i am very proud to do so. I have just spent several hours this afternoon liasing with carillion with regards to the cleaning on my ward. Something i do alongside my nursing demands,often in my own time. I have spoken to Carillion on several occassions reference training the cleaning staff to do a better job,it has worked on our ward. I spend a minimum of two hours once a week doing cleaning audits so that things are kept on top of. I am very proud of what i have achieved on my ward and i address any issues with cleanliness by contacting Carillion supervisors directly.
As for the food,yes,it is a sackable offence to eat the food which is served on the ward,that is why we bring our own food! Also,as we only get one half hour break during a very busy eight hour shift,then the last thing you want to do is be stood in the canteen waiting to be served!
I think people who moan about the hospital should perhaps volunteer and come and see what pressure we are really under on the wards. You might then realise what a service we provide under such terrible demands. Most nursing staff wish they could do more,but we are only human and yes,unfortunately not everybody is satisfied. I believe i am extremely competent in my job and i give it my all,i love my job and i feel a sense of great satisfaction after every shift. Come up and volunteer,you might understand the NHS then.

"I have just spent several hours this afternoon liasing with carillion with regards to the cleaning on my ward."

Several is three or more in my book. Why the **** should you be spending that amount of your valuable time liaising with Carillion? Can't they do the job correctly in the first place?

Mum of three. I doubt that anyone and i include myself here, doubt your commitment, dedication, professionalism and **** hard work along with your colleagues, as usual it is a case of lions led by donkey's. That, however, does not make things right within the NHS or the GWH. As I said in an earlier post in response to a cheap dig by Doug that I would involve the knowledgeable staff who graft at the coal face on how to improve things and you've in a way vindicated my comment. I wish you well.

Poor management, Government targets not linked to clinical needs, absurd and unnecessary levels of management bureaucracy, outsourcing of services such as cleaning, etc etc are all part and parcel of the demise of the NHS in this country and in particular the GWH here in Swindon.
Who is to blame for all this? Look no further than this appalling Government.

Good morning A Tax Payer, I respond 24hrs later due to the fact at this time of the year I work 16hr days (7 days a week), my choice, but leaves little time to sit at a PC.

I did not think I made a cheap shot at your first post, I merely responded in that way because I am sick of people saying the NHS is rubbish without backing it up and your statement (although apolitic) went on to tar all other local and central government bodies. In that post I thought you were just plain negative. Upon my challenge you came up with clear cohesive argument, some points I disagree with, but a lot I did.

You said ‘(like you have all the answers yourself on the back of a fag packet)’ As you yourself proved, none of us do!

You say cut out non essential treatment such as cosmetic surgery, if they want it they can pay for it, in the main there is nothing wrong with that statement, but there are always exceptions to the rule and if we look hard enough we will find someone whose mental well being was improved by such surgery. be it ears, nose, or breast.

Reduce waste. Yes but waste has to be identified, and that can be across the board from drugs to toilet paper.

‘make sure the drug companies offered better deals and do more business with generic manufacturers’, Most of these companies are not British owned and to an extent have been allowed to do as they like since the creation of the NHS. I believe that these companies must be brought into line if necessary by nationalisation and made to work for the benefit if the people not shareholders or mega rich families.

Cleaning, you said ‘make the cleaning companies more accountable and liable for their contracts.’ This will never happen while cleaning is outsourced, the hospital goes for the lowest bidder, and they will pay the lowest wages, and we as patients pay for it in the lowest level of service. I would scrap the tendering and employ direct labour, bringing back the old style Matron who would inspect the ward for cleanliness as part of her/his duties and give out the old style wrath if the ward is not up to scratch. True a promoted and trained nurse will then have a role that is more admin then nursing, however if that post replaces at least one administrator then it will be worth it even though it will probably cost more.

Your reference re the midwife who was told that she was to pay for her own retraining. This is outrageous and also makes a mockery of the Equal Opps. Act.

I, like you can go on about the shortcomings of the NHS’s, friends of mine have died after routing operations in both GWH and PMH, my own daughter was brain damaged by PMH. But I firmly believe that the NHS is a body that can only be improved by throwing money at it, and only a proper Labour Government can make it run properly.

I also apologise if you feel my post was a cheap shot, it was not intended to be.

Big Mac you stated that MRSH does not exist in private hospitals whilst I have no evidence to prove otherwise, I also know that there are no drunken brawls on a Friday and Saturday night in private hospitals.

As for treatment in other counties, well I remember some 25 years ago falling of my motorcycle in Tashkent (then part of the USSR) and fractured my wrist, and had the best hospital treatment of my life, basic, but clean, and all the tools and equipment needed for the staff to perform their duties, but above all free for all!

Big Mac you stated that MRSH does not exist in private hospitals whilst I have no evidence to prove otherwise, I also know that there are no drunken brawls on a Friday and Saturday night in private hospitals.

Better all round then.

Frontier(s) wrote:

Big Mac you stated that MRSH does not exist in private hospitals whilst I have no evidence to prove otherwise, I also know that there are no drunken brawls on a Friday and Saturday night in private hospitals.

Better all round then.

Ho ho, however the point was private hospitals have a narrow remit which does not include the expensive A & E. If A & E was part, then the insurance premiums would be a lot, lot, higher!

I was treated as an inpatient at GWH (Meldon Ward) just over six weeks and the experience wasn't too bad. The only problem I can really relate was this was the second date for the op - the first occasion being the week before when it was abruptly cancelled after I was dressed ready for surgery.

The staff I dealt with were without exception pleasant and helpful. The odd one might not have had English as their first language but at no time did I feel unsafe.

There were times when I felt a bit more information could have been offered re going home etc., but that's the nature of hospital - long periods of boring inactivity between anything happening. Food was okay, nothing special, but hardly inedible - given they have a budget of about £1 a day per patient they do quite well with the money.

Where the system did fall down a bit was on discharge I was supposed to have my wound cleaned and packed every other day by the nurse but my surgery (Ashington House) had no appointments for a week. Couldn't get through to the womble on reception the importance of this after care, District Nurse was refused and apparently not part of Doctor's duties to dress wounds. All they could suggest was Carfax Clinic or the portakabin at GWH but nature of the op (pilonidal sinus - Google it) meant I could not sit or stay very long in one position. I did get a rather nasty infection in the wound but that is more due to the GP Surgery failings than GWH.